Jul 26, 2012

Discussion on the Gifts_MY NOTES

Are the miraculous gifts of the Spirit for the church today? Here are my notes from when I discussed my views on this subject and here is the video.

Define prophecy: “the human report of a divine revelation”
The process of prophecy: revelation –perception – interpretation - application

The traditional Pentecostal view on “baptism of the Holy Spirit” is incorrect:
1 Corinthians 12:13
For in one Spirit we were all baptized into one body—Jews or Greeks, slaves or free—and all were made to drink of one Spirit.

Pentecost means:
-the Spirit is now present based on the finished work of Christ -eschatological-
-and he is poured out on all people (and universal)
NOTE: Not all prophecies are witness to Christ’s redemptive deed – Agabus and the famine or Acts 13:2 While they were worshiping the Lord and fasting, the Holy Spirit said, “Set apart for me Barnabas and Saul for the work to which I have called them.”

Do miraculous acts and apostolic ministry go together? Others than apostles exercise these gifts:
-Acts 6:8 And Stephen, full of grace and power, was doing great wonders and signs among the people.
Acts 2:38-39 – doesn’t sound restricted to apostles or the 120…
-Acts 2:38–39 And Peter said to them, “Repent and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins, and you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit. 39 For the promise is for you and for your children and for all who are far off, everyone whom the Lord our God calls to himself.”
-The function of miraculous gifts in Corinth for ‘average’ believers doesn’t sound like gospel-spreading work! See below
1 Corinthians 14:39 So, my brothers, earnestly desire to prophesy, and do not forbid speaking in tongues.
1 Corinthians 12:7–10 To each is given the manifestation of the Spirit for the common good. 8 For to one is given through the Spirit the utterance of wisdom, and to another the utterance of knowledge according to the same Spirit, 9 to another faith by the same Spirit, to another gifts of healing by the one Spirit, 10 to another the working of miracles, to another prophecy, to another the ability to distinguish between spirits, to another various kinds of tongues, to another the interpretation of tongues.

Miracles for apostles only? James 5:14-15, Philip, Stephen
Grudem points out that the problem of successors to the apostles is solved by pointing Christians to Scriptures, not prophets!
Eph. 4:11 – is prophet an ‘office’? no, neither is ‘evangelist’. Both describe those who work  of said activity
1 Corinthians 14:37-38 = prophets w/less authority than apostles
1 Cor 11:5 w/14:34 shows prophecy less than teaching or governing 

If cessationists want to link all prophecies to canon, then what about ones not recorded?
such as in the following:
-Acts 15:32 And Judas and Silas, who were themselves prophets, encouraged and strengthened the brothers with many words.
-Acts 21:9 He had four unmarried daughters, who prophesied.
-1 Corinthians 14:1 Pursue love, and earnestly desire the spiritual gifts, especially that you may prophesy.
-1 Thessalonians 5:20 Do not despise prophecies,

If tongues are revelatory (prophetic) and for the foundation of the church, why would we have it be for private individuals, not to be shared? -1 Corinthians 14:28 But if there is no one to interpret, let each of them keep silent in church and speak to himself and to God.
Must be judged! 1 Corinthians 14:29 and 1 Thessalonians 5:19-22 (cf. 1 Cor. 12:3)
if these were canonical, why would Paul command some essentially “be lost” as in 1 Cor 1 14:30?
would Paul disobey canonical revelation? Acts 21:4 And having sought out the disciples, we stayed there for seven days. And through the Spirit they were telling Paul not to go on to Jerusalem.
all at once – then how could they be distinct? -Acts 19:6 And when Paul had laid his hands on them, the Holy Spirit came on them, and they began speaking in tongues and prophesying.
1 Corinthians 13:9 – NT prophecy has limitations
helper, administrator, interpreter, healer, tongue speaker and prophet are descriptive nouns, not offices
One can pray for the ability to interpret tongues! 1 Cor 14:13

How long will it last? 1 Cor 13:10 – when Christ returns! If not, then it’s “love never ends, in fact, it will last at least another 40 years” or “once Scripture is done, I’m gonna know way more stuff”

Revelation 11 – two individuals or symbolic of the church, they prophesy!
-Revelation 11:3 And I will grant authority to my two witnesses, and they will prophesy for 1,260 days, clothed in sackcloth.”
-Revelation 11:6 They have the power to shut the sky, that no rain may fall during the days of their prophesying, and they have power over the waters to turn them into blood and to strike the earth with every kind of plague, as often as they desire. -Revelation 11:10 and those who dwell on the earth will rejoice over them and make merry and exchange presents, because these two prophets had been a torment to those who dwell on the earth.

Establishing missions is one function of the Spirit but not the only one – that’s reductionistic
were all the sons and daughters laying the foundation of the church? (Acts 19:1-7, 21:9). note- context is not about miraculous gifts - Ephesians 2:20 built on the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Christ Jesus himself being the cornerstone...

Agabus in Acts 21:33 – 22:29 and Acts 21:31-36
Prophecy is like teaching in that only the revelation itself is infallible!
does God ‘reveal’ things to us? Phil. 3:15 but this doesn’t equal divine authority!
If tongues are always a sign for unbelievers, then why were only believers present in Acts 10 and 19?
1 Corinthians 12:10 – unlikely he means a variety of human languages, everyone knows that but perhaps rather human and heavenly languages instead (1 Corinthians 13:1)?
1 Corinthians 14:2? Don’t human languages speak to men, not just to God?
1 Corinthians 14:23 – why would people think they were crazy? Maybe just educated!
Women encouraged to prophecy but not judge prophecies 1 Corinthians 14:33-35 vs. 1 Tim 2:12

Do we need it – why?
1. if scripture teaches we obey
2. lack of the full blessing of God
3. can add intimacy and sensitivity to our walk and in vitality and vibrancy in our worship
are all prophets? No, for no one gift is had by every believer (1 Cor. 12:29) also 12:11 also Rom 12:3, 6

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